Bishop Eddie Long
So after a turbulent week Bishop Eddie Long stepped to the pulpit of his New Birth Church this Sunday morning to address the allegations of sexual abuse levied against him by 3 young men. We recently gotten word that a 4th has come forward.
This is pretty much the entire sermon. Long doesn’t really start addressing the charges until 7 or 8 minutes into pt1.. In pt2 he’s pretty much letting folks know that he intends to fight back and that he’s under attack. Long notes that he’s not a perfect man and he never claimed to be, but he is not the man being portrayed on TV. He promises to fight the charges.
What I find interesting is that we don’t really hear about the young men who accused him. Let’s say they are lying, that would indicate a certain type of sickness that needs healing and prayer. Let’s say they are being truthful, well those young men were violated in the worse way and need love and prayer.
The other thing that’s interesting and this is not unique to Long, but so many seem to have an obsession with homosexuality. What I mean is that one can read scripture and conclude that sex before marriage is sinful, home sexuality is sinful, lying is sinful etc.. Yet at the end of the day lots of time and attention is spent on the ‘sin of being gay’. Why is that?
We don’t have folks picketing couples who co-habitat. We don’t have folks damning folks for lying or baring false witness even when pointed out. But have someone who is gay and all hell breaks loose. Long was one of those folks who really underscored why he felt this was such a sinful ‘behavior’ , why not the other things? His outspokenness on gay sex is what got everyone’s attention especially when he was accused of partaking in the very activity he so aggressively damned.
The other thing that was interesting was during the sermon, Long had his armed security kick ‘media’ out the church which holds 25 thousand. Spelman professor and author Jelani Cobb who frequently appears as a guest on CNN was one of those ‘media folks’ escorted out. That’s crazy when you consider that Long has had no problem being out there for the media. Now suddenly its an issue when he gets ‘unwanted’ attention?
The other day author Hadji Williams said something profound. He reminded us that we have made many of our pastors rock stars and perhaps we shouldn’t be viewing them through the lens of celebrity. He noted that to do so speaks volumes about our values. Are we praying to the pastor or to the God the pastor preaches about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp_OOXmMluA pt1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmZ8wjnWM&feature=watch_response
I just wonder why he’s wearing that pelt on his head.
i just think that ir’s pastors like u who have made me leave the church building but we as christian sometimes forget that you all are just a man clearly able to sin just like the rst of use no more faith in man or what GOD told u to tell me my faith is only in him and i don’t need a building fund or a choir or a sermon to get it I get it everyday with the most high my lord and savior JESUS CHRIST him self don’t need u to speak to GOD on my belf I can do that by my self but don’t let them b to hard on u after all your just a man
I think the media cannot remain objective in issues like this or others. The media tends to go for the sensational and attention grabbing. One can talk about love and prayer from a spiritual perspective, but the media doesn’t know how to write, or accept that. In my opinion. When it comes to issues like this they seem to be more concerned with “how much the suit costs”, not how many people have been helped spiritually. Not excusing anyones behavior, and I have not listened to Mr. Long, but if one wants to talk about attacks, all of us are constantly under spiritual attack, and in this case all parties involved need prayer. The accused and the accuser. Just me two cents…
More reason to not take Christianity seriously.
Christianity as opposed to what?… one cannot look at or judge a spiritual path or tradition by the worst examples. If that is the case, then you can’t take Islam seriously, or Judaism, or any number of other faith traditions.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then she/he is not omnipotent.
Is God able to prevent evil, but not willing?
Then she/he is malevolent.
Is God both able and willing to prevent evil?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is God neither able nor willing to prevent evil?
Then why call her/him God?
-Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
To see humans still falling for ANY of the countless “religious” scams in this day and age is amazing. You would think with all the wrong people speaking for their so-called gods it, she, them, he, etc. would just speak for it, her, them, him, etc. self/selves. Until then, dogacuf!
U cant argue a man’s faith and its abit simplistic both in understanding religion or faith to simply see God as one to stop all evil when one has free will..If u dont believe you dont’ believe, but if u are willing to do unto someone in a manner that is less thenwhat u would want someone to do to u then u answered ur question..Lastly in time..not our time but universal time the scales balance..
He could be a victim of an extortion tactic , but when a man of “God” rolls around in Bentley’s it makes you wonder… I but maybe thats just my own judgement, I hope everything works for all parties, it’s pretty sad to see this type of situation…
QUILOMBO if GOD intervened during every evil act how would we know the difference between love and hurt, pain and happiness, how could we “forgive” anyone if no one ever did us harm? Sure the idea of GOD parting the clouds and extending a literal, and physical “Helping hand” is a notion that most people would love but how would you LEARN anything that way. What central moment of pain could you use as a point of reference? And who’s to say God hasn’t already intervened in your life, obviously your lucky/blessed enough to be able to use a PC, and even more lucky/blessed to live in The U S of A.
I once, wholeheartedly, accepted, without question, that which was once used to subdue the will of and fully indoctrinate and assimilate the mind and body of my ancestors, but no more. After careful scrutiny of the three major organized religions I came to the conclusion that something did not set right with what I saw and heard. With the little time we are allowed on this planet I refuse to blindly follow that which make no logical sense and is full of inconsistencies. People can’t even get the name of the “gods’ in which they profess allegiance right so how on earth could their “prayers” truly be heard, much less answered? Since you seem to be willing to defend your religious dogma, I propose a few questions: Do you blindly float through your daily life, guided by an unseen hand or do you consciously plan and think through your actions before making a decision? Have you ever experienced great loss, pray for comfort, yet still feel no true solace when your religious ritual of seeking your god’s grace was completed? Have you ever been outside of the US to visit another country or do you base your assumptions that it is a “blessing” to reside in one of the youngest and most contradictory governments on this planet? Do you use your real PC (brain/common sense)? Have you ever heard of or read the works of the following authors?
Sam Harris – The End of Faith
Joan Konner – The Atheist’s Bible
Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion
William Henry Burr – Self-Contradictions of The Bible
Erich Von Daniken – Chariots of the Gods
William Bramley – The Gods of Eden
Zecharia Sitchin – Genesis Revisited – Is Modern Science Catching Up With Ancient Knowledge (1990)
Estelle Nora Harwit Amrani – The Annunaki
Graham Hancock – Fingerprints of the Gods
Patrick Conway – The Awful Truth
Michael Shermer – Why People Believe in Weird Things
Are you willing to hear the presentation of facts which might challenge your beliefs? Do you possess an opened mind? If you are willing to seek rather than faithfully wait you might be surprised at how liberating true freedom is. The freedom of knowing that YOU have the power to get up, stand, and fight for your right (life) just as Robert Marley once sang about. Find true freedom and hypocrites, sexual deviants, perverts, pedophiles, extremists, and pulpit pimps (all of which organized religion is full of and condones the behavior of) will no longer delude you.
“Society must fight against this belief in God as it fought against idol worship and other narrow conceptions of religion. In this way man will try to stand on his feet. Being realistic, he will have to throw his faith aside and face all adversaries with courage and valour. That is exactly my state of mind.” -Shaheed Bhagat Singh
God is real Quilombo… yep he sure is.. I feel him everyday, every moment..
I think this whole discussion is pointless. What Bishop Long and all those involved are going through is a lesson for reflection, growth and a deeper understanding about themselves. Period. A lesson of understanding to grow more wise. Us talking about our limited “God concept” has nothing to do about this situation. It doesn’t solve the problem! We really fool ourselves thinking we know the fullness of that great force or energy referred to as God because we’ve read a book or some versions of a “holy book”. You can’t name what you can’t define. What human being can define “God” with certainty? Man attempts to understand that which is greater than him. We have a tremendous amount of knowledge but little understanding or wisdom. Just look at the comments about faith, religion, God, Christianity, the media and whatever else. If we have the answer to this particular problem approach Bishop Long, the “alleged” victims and members of New Birth and solve the problem!
Praise the Lawd!!!
Adekunle, explain your “God Concept” please
QUILOMBO has a point….
I am a father of 2 sons and as their father I’D DO ANY AND EVERYTHING to make sure that they are safe, protected and provided for. I DO IT BECAUSE I LOVE THEM. NOT because they worship and follow my words to the T…. I do it because I fathered them and want nothing but their continued growth and progress. THE ONLY “FATHER” WHO WOULD ALLOW THEIR “CHILDREN” TO SUFFER AND EXPECT PRAISE FOR IT IS…THE GOD THAT HAS BEEN SOLD TO MOST OF US BY MAJOR RELIGION.
As Adekunle commented: We really fool ourselves thinking we know the fullness of that great force or energy referred to as God because we’ve read a book or some versions of a “holy book”.
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100% True
Loverboy,
A God concept is just that a concept. The divine energy, force or whatever you called is beyond the concept. We human beings think in words and concepts, with that capacity we develop religions and spiritual systems. The “God” concept is a useful attempt by man to recognize that which is greater than him. Since no human being can say they created the universe we rightly attribute that to something greater and more powerful than ourselves! All religions and spiritual systems have value in my opinion. It just amazes me how people argue and even kill in the name of God and not realize that no human being can know that force in totality. My spiritual base is grounded in the principle of treating others the way I want to be treated, period! Simple but diffcult to do all time!
Don’t use Eddie Long as a reason not to have a relationship with God. And as for the people that DON’T believe in God: great. Let’s hear the name you call when something bad happens: “Oh, my God!”, “Jesus Christ!”, “God Bless You!” etc, etc. As a Black man, my God has saved me and has been with me through the good and the bad. Maybe, you feel like man is all powerful. That’s cool. Like the late great Tupac said,”Who Do You Believe In” because once its all over I would rather have a concept of a place better than this one VERSUS this Europeanized concept that this world IS the only world.
Reason4, Adekunle and QUILOMBO.
Quilombo, you quote modern day men, yet you rebuke the bible(a book that is dated back up to 6000 years …hmmm…from what I understand you are saying that you used to believe,however, those books and introspection change your way of thinking…Let me ask you this….did you research the books written by those MEN…because you have put your faith in their finding. If you care, yes I have research the scriptures, in fact, I am a scholar.
Do you understand the story of Exuodus?
Do you understand the story of David vs Goliath?
Do you understand the story of Jonah and the great fish?
Do you understand the purpose of most the minor prophets?
The arguements that yall are making a paper thin. Quilombo, are you aware of the fact that the bible talks about the situation that many of our third world country brothers and sisters are currently facing. That’s what Jesus was preaching against. That’s no religious dogma. That’s political.
Do you know the history behind the scriptures? If so, what is the general theme behind the mission of Christ? Let me answer that for you….it’s love.
Jesus wasn’t some positive dude promoting a religion. He was promoting love and rebuking the class system. Most of what he was talking about was extremely political. He was arguing against the same thing that you guys are arguing against, and that is religion. In his mind it was pointless.
Of course man wrote the bible, it’s called a testimony. The brothers who came before us gave a testimony concerning their experiences with God. I’m one of those Christians who will say that there are contradictions…but that doesn’t change the fact that God wants to be glorified. How does he get the glory. That’s easy, by us serving one another. If we followed that we wouldn’t have so much pain in the world that we live in.
God is not a religion. God is not a concept. He is a living being who wants HIS children to work togheter and show love(show some care).
Yes, our group is full of people who are hypocrites. But so what, that doesn’t mean that i’m a hypocrite.
That’s why i’m tutoring, feeding the homeless, teaching adult education(soon) and helping others as every opportunity presents itself. Being a member of our faith is about healing pain through service and changing the world by way of service.
Loverboy,
Everything you write is grounded in a concept. I said that the divine force/energy is beyond the concept. Okay your a scholar, I’m a priest of Ifa, which is the indigenous spiritual system of the Yoruba people. I’ve been initiated for 18 years. Ifa is dated 10,000 years, I do believe this is older than 6,000. The tradition is a oral one and is diffcult for most people to access this includes scholars. The problems in the “third world” countries aren’t politcal their spiritual, since everything begins in spirit. We respect the Christian viewpoint, but don’t go around defining people, places and things thinking you have all the answers . It’s called arrogance. Ifa has it’s own creation story and concepts that don’t align with the Judaic, Christian or Islamic perspective. It doesn’t make yours wrong just different. There is no concept of original sin or hell. Ifa has testimonies of the Yoruba people being one and the same with the Kemites(Egyptians) and doesn’t contain the Exodus story as it play out in the bible. In addition, Anwar Sadat, the former Egyptian President said there was no record of the Exodus event in Egyptian history. But, I’m sure your okay with that since there are two sides to every story. Maybe, you don’t have access to the other version of the story, in the realm of possibility? You should be commended for your service, but others are engaging in the same service who is not of your faith, so I don’t see what that proves. Based on whose standard are you basing whether our arguments are valid, yours? So, you think your standards are universal and can’t be called into question? Lastly, if the shoe don’t fit don’t wear it, who said that you were a hypocrite because some Christians are? If no one knows you personally they shouldn’t make that assumption. Remember my brother this was written in love and togetherness!
I didn’t say that the faith is 6,000 years old homie, I said that the documents date back to 6,000 years. As you said it’s oral, so was the faith that guides me.
I was addressing the guy who made mention of the fact that he read books from modern day writers.
The answer is Love. Can you argue against “do unto others as you want done unto you”. Problably not, since you said that you follow this rule.
No one said that the creation story is suppossed to be taken literally. As I said, you speak from a lack of understanding. Eve fell victim to ideology and the benefits of sin. Therefore, death(the current state of man) came upon man.
Would you say that cilivization is lost and confused? That was the point of the Exodus story. God was setting people apart of from the apotasy(man’s philosiphy).
There was alot of information that was lost with burning of the library in Alexandria.
Our faith is an African one that is actually older than yours. Moses was a black African born in modern day Ugunda. Alot of what’s in the bible was one that was shared with egypt(proverbs especially). Racist have hidden these facts.
You and whoever can believe what you want. However, you dudes are saying that our faith is bogus and you are using cliche arguments to make your point. If you are going to attack our faith come with something harder not “man wrote that book”.
My standards can’t be called into question. My standards are based on humanity. Only a fool would call that into question.
Can you defy Jesus’ words?
I’m not bragging on my service. You’re right, you can be a devil worshipper and do nice things.
Loverboy,
Well, your faith can’t preceed the documents. From a lack of understanding based on whose prespective, yours? I’m not coming from racist sources. You keep switching from taking the bible as a historical fact and then it’s not to be taken literally. Which is it? Your arguments are baseless because you and I both know you can’t prove that your belief is older than mine. Dating for Ifa takes place 10,000 years or older, it really can’t be dated. Anywhere you find traditional indigenous spiritual systems in Africa the knowledge is kept among the priesthood. Period. The physical evidence for the biblical claims are basically non existent. If a lot of the information was lost how do you know? The information was actually preserved among different tribes in Africa, which the Yoruba was one. The information is not in books and is not privy to most scholars. Who is saying your faith is bogus? I didn’t. You admitted man wrote the book, but direct me to the anthropological and archaeological evidence that proves your claim. I can physically prove the Yorubas and Khemits are one and the same. Ifa priest still practice/live the rites, rituals, burial ceremonies, the crowns of Yourba kings, embalming of the dead and pyramid building to this day. I can go on and on about this. A real high level Babalowo does the things Jesus did and then some. I have seen this with my own eyes! Moses was born in Goshen, which is in Egypt. Mose/Moshe was raised in Egypt and received an Egyptian education. I wasn’t asking you to believe anything, belief implies an absence of knowledge. If someone slaps you do you say you believed you got slapped? Your faith was derived from African social thought and mythology is true, but it wasn’t the source. Call me a fool because what you believe doesn’t represent all of humanity, it only represents an aspect. I don’t believe Jesus existed as an historical figure and you can’t prove it physically either, other than by saying you believe. Account for Jesus from 18 to 30 years of age. Jesus was nothing more than a practicing Egyptian/Yoruba priest. With all I just said I don’t thinks this invalidates what you believe and place your faith in. We just have different experiences which lead to different viewpoints.
This is from.. Quilombo (he was not able to post up yesterday from his account)
“For the record, I was raped at the age of 11 to 12 by a man, I have a father heavily addicted to crack, and I am a native of New Orleans, 9th ward, Florida Projects. I guess we deserved Katrina right? Too much sin and what not right?!?
I have learned to deal with great loss my entire life and I have, as stated before, followed wholeheartedly and unquestionably, the requirements of three of the major organized religions and the Five Percent Nation of Gods and Earths. Any of ya’ll that have survived anything remotely close to what I have had to contend with, let me know if an unseen hand gave you any help. So my thing is where was god, government, etc.?
As hard as it might be to fathom it, we are all alone in THIS realm. If you take the time to analyze the books I suggested vice defending the curse of organized religion you would not make such an asinine assumption that I do NOT believe this is the only world in which life exists. Culture has nothing to do with it unless you are suggesting that colored people are held to a higher degree of blind faith and belief in that which has let us down since our inception in this forsaken land. If I have learned nothing from the European Caucasoid I have learned this: all gods fall before the one in whom he worships. Just look at how indigenous peoples have been manipulated to forsake their own “gods” to follow that of their colonizer, only to be slowly and imminently reduced suffering, nothingness, and waiting on a savior; and without the slightest aid from their original religious protagonist.
Even the Afrikans that were originally stolen and shipped to this land to serve as beasts of burden, property, and/or animals to be used and discarded (and justified by the same god you now cling to for “salvation”) were Moslem yet just a few generations later their decedents pray to Yahushua (NOT Jesus because there is no “J” sound in Hebrew. The letter “J” is only about 500 years old and isn’t even found in the original 1611 King James version) [www.eliyah.com]. Plus it means that Yahweh the real god of the B.I.B.L.E. (is Salvation). But you knew that, right?!? Just as you might have a strong desire to defend your beliefs I have a strong desire to know more than one or two or three long standing notions which may be erroneous yet will stand as a guide for the remainder of my life.
What of the advanced civilizations which predate or modern world and the “gods” which perished in antiquity? What of Sumner and the ORIGINAL Sumerian texts which have been proven to be the root from which all current organized religions have snapped a branch from? See when we allow our thoughts and actions to be governed by that which continually goes unchallenged, we disallow anything other logical opinions or facts to enter. We cease to use our own mind and therefore regurgitate the ideals of another, thus allowing many grave injustices to go unpunished or just ignored.
“Let god judge him” I am sorry but I reject this notion and I walk this realm with my head held up and my heart and mind open. Brother D, what of Shekinah, the female deity to the male deity Yahewh? Does not the Scripture say, let US make man (and woman) in OUR image and likeness, or are you against women being on an equal level playing field along with us men, which is western civilization at its best… Non-theism all the way, come what may, and I still love ALL ya’ll! It is what it is! Salām, Shalom, Peace, 16-5-1-3-5!”
Quilombo
first, I am sorry to hear about ur hardships.. They should not be glossed over lightly so one can make a point in a discussion like this…There are no easy answers to this and I don’t think God ever said there would be.. When I hear about individual atrocities like this or horrors that impact the collective, Katrina, slavery, Rwanda, Pakistan, the Tsunami etc..mine and I’m sure amny other people’s faiths are challenged.
Our faith in God is challenged where we asked the age old question-Why allow disaster and evil? But our faith in each other is challenged Why does man do such evil? Our faiths are especially challenged when evil things are done in the name of God. Some of us have gone on spiritual quests looking for answer.. Some have stuck with their beliefs looking for answers..
At the end of the day a few things are needed. healing and solace for those victimized and Justice for those who were done wrong. We also want peace of mind and deeper understanding onto ourselves, the ways of the world and hopefully to that higher power..
I think u know from studying religions that its too simplistic to simply pray with no actions both externally and more importantly internally.. We know that just because one raises his name doesn’t mean they act on his tenets. So no matter what slave masters did we know it was false, just as we know cats flying into a building on 9-11 wasn’t Islam.. Zionist killing palestinians is not Judiasm.. Tiger woods fucking 15 girls while married isn’t Buddism..
Evil people will take the best of things and turn it into a tool of oppression and something sinister.. For me in dealing with stuff, I have come to know that there are some evil people out there.. Vicious folks and on a very basic level whether I believe in God or not, I know one basic challenge I have before me is to not become like them.. Don’t give up my humanity. I turn to my faith to strengthen my resolve.. This does not mean I allow you to walk over me.. I will defend myself as a Christian.. Turn the other cheek is not let you kick my ass.. It means I will not give into the evil that you are.. You slap me.. Here’s the other cheek take another shot.. no matter what I will not become the slave master or the one who commits genocide or the oppressive force..
At the same time injustice should spark a righteous anger and commitment to correct wrongs.. The challenge again is not to become the very things you hate..
I cant say what was going on with people from other times and other dynasties that were conquered.. I can look at what’s going on here in America and see a country that has claimed to be blessed falling by the minute.. As we collaspe what will folks say 1000 years from now.. This sacred land was overtaken by another force even though we were a Christian nation?
yes, we’re Christian but collectively we have not acted like that. We have not risen to the occassion to reflect the tenets of the faith we claim and so at the end of the day we may all fall..Why because we are responsible for each other.. This inhumanity we have unleashed on one another is happening on our watch..How do we turn this around, dig deep into one self, connect with our God and reclaim our humanity even as evil has run amok.
Quilombo,
I’m sorry to hear about your trouble as well. Organized religion is totally different than people coming up with a gathering and/or something cultural.
Adekunle,
I never said that you can’t take the bible literally. I said that some things are symbolic while others aren’t. Common sense would tell you that God created the world and he used a system to do it.
So you mean to tell me that your oral tradition has been passed down 100 percent accurately?
Your priest have done what Jesus has done, are you talking miracles? So what!! So did the Egyptian priest when Moses was around. That doesn’t mean that your priest is stronger or mightier than Christ.
The Egyptian priest(your group,so you say) taught Socrates. Socrates learned that the wisest man on earth realizes that he doesn’t know anything at all. What is knowledge worth if it’s not going to change the world….when it comes to certain knowledge God keeps no secrets.
What’s the point of it, it it’s not about changing the world. There is DNA proof that there are South Africans who are decedents of the ancient Hebrews. They practice Hebrew like rituals.
If it’s so strong and mighty why is Nigeria a hell hole, use that knowledge to change the country.
When you and other say account for….account for what…he didn’t start his ministry until he was 30 years old.
faith can’t precede the documents. See man you need to brush up on your education. Everything in the old days precede the documents, especially before the printing press, even a Shakespearean play.
It says that Moses was born at the mouth of the nile. That’s modern day Ugunda, maybe it was egypt back then or perhaps Ethiopia which would have been nubia.
What’s your stance Adekunle? You seem like one of these cookie cut out Jesus bashers.
Ya’ll went off Eddie “lying all-a” Long into this big debate about is God real. The final proof will be when God comes and cleans house. Ain’t no debating what just killed you. At this point death is the only thing man can understand or at least respect across the board. Yup he has some creations that don’t look like us to. Now:
Eddie Long ain’t shit but a hustler-scripture pimp. The world has always had them. Liars; hypocrites, and just general bullshit artist using the inspirational power of the Bible to get what they want. If the Bible didn’t exist he’d use Dr. Suess or whatever people where drawn to, as an oppurtunity to take leadership and begin the manipulation. A lot of these mega churches ain’t nothing but non-profit ponzi schemes where the rewards are draped in job paychecks and perks; such as travel. The only difference from a straight up ponzi is that to advance you use social guile instead of straight up numbers accounted for. In other words you just get in good with the people in power and bring in a few new members – middle class and better tithers. In turn you give your ten percent back into the church. Then you get a job with the church making double what you where; and say praise the Lord.
Sounds like suckers all the way around to me. You can’t blame religion itself for this; people take advantage of the legal system, educational system, politics, whatever has a potential buck behind it. I heard them bougie Atls have made it a fine art. Creflo said f that just call me Pastor Dollar.
You’re innocent until proven guilty. But I would have to agree with flavorblade, all indications look towards hustler-scripture pimp.
Yeah, they have to “Creflo” that Dollar out of your wallet…
The final proof will be when God comes and cleans house. Ain’t no debating what just killed you.
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This is why I avoid religious people like the plague…. Who gave you a heads up about what “God” will do? A book (written by man)? A preacher/priest? (a mere man) Too many people believe in that which they do not know or understand and can’t expalin, yet they constantly beleive that THEIR view is the ONE. I for the record know that I am in no way an equal to whatever created this universe nor do I claim to have all the answers. I am agnostic so by definition, I will can not assume that I KNOW…I admit that there are too many unanswered questions.
I don’t go around telling people “when you die – you’re going to see that you were believeing in something that was b.s.”. That in my opinion would be wrong. But I can’t tell you how many “christians” run around preaching gloom and doom revelations. This is why so many people stay away from so-called “religious” people…
Reason 4. I understand your way of reasoning; that’s why I said until God asserts there is room for it. Where I’m different is that I’m saying when “God” asserts not a person or people.
How do we know it’s God? The means of assertion will be beyond man’s.
You know there is a difference between a religious person and spiritual minded person. A religious person adheres to a prescribed doctrine – some call dogma. A spiritual minded person connects with God in a personal way without preconceived assumptions.
That’s why, say if aliens made themselves known to the general public tomorrow. A religious person would go nuts or at least have a hard time coping. A spiritual minded person would be much more open to discovering within what spiritual context they fall into (pardon the pun -Martians).
I hope you will respond back and we can continue. I’m not trying to get nasty or deal with a bunch of keyboard B.S. My dag on manager already got me cussed out at work today over a failed communication attempt on his part.
I see nothing but the judgment of Eddie Long. I believe that he is innocent until proven guilty and either way it goes, if Christian with belief in Christ Jesus, we should pray for the accusers and the accused, the same. For every voice laying waste to him and others with one finger pointing, 4 fingers point back to you and maybe soon, your sins will be exposed to others around you, and you will look to someone to stand with you or support you, maybe forgive you. We all stand as condemners until we are the condemned. Then we look for peace and love or forgiveness everywhere we run to.
If he is guilty, then he, will have to seek repentance and forgiveness from God, we will need to help him to find his way in prayer, love him with the blood of Christ and allow God to restore him.
To the atheist, agnostics, and others without a relationship with Christ, as you judge him, know that your sins are about to be open for others to see and judge you as well! Pray that they don’t be exposed!
Jose, on September 26, 2010 at 11:07 pm Said:
Christianity as opposed to what?… one cannot look at or judge a spiritual path or tradition by the worst examples. If that is the case, then you can’t take Islam seriously, or Judaism, or any number of other faith traditions.
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Throughout world history Christians have by far been the most murderous and thieving of all self proclaimed religious people. Muslims would have to commit a thousand more 9/11s to even come close to reaching the murder toll that Christians have racked up as far as history can be accounted for.
Jose, assuming you’re Latino, you know the only reason you’re a Christian is because Spaniards killed one of your indigenous male ancestors and raped one of your indigenous female ancestors, and raised the ensuing children to be Christians.
I couldn’t imagine continuing to have faith in a religion I was born into, when the origins of my ancestors’ indoctrination into this religion could be traced to them being pillaged, raped, and forced into it. I feel liberated knowing I don’t To all of you non whites who still choose to be Christian, I admire your ability to block out these historical FACTS. I have to wonder if it takes some kind of mental toll, if it plays a role in the self hate we see in minority communities, especially minority communities that have historically suffered the most abuse from whites.
@ flavorblade
Thank you for your reply. I hope I did not come across to strong in my message. My intention would never be to get nasty or rude due to a web convo. I respect everyones right to express themselves. I do not think it is my place to tell anyone what to believe in or worship. Spirituality is personal and should be respected. The funny thing to me is that some RELIGIOUS people can’t seem to keep their veiws to themselves or practice the true dogma of their faith. And often some of these same people like to evangelize, not by speaking up their faith and doing good deeds but by speaking down and judging others because they may be of another faith or outside of their immediate circle. Instead of engaging people in a respectful manner as you have, they usually go off the deep end.
For example, vizion the all seeing wrote:
To the atheist, agnostics, and others without a relationship with Christ, as you judge him, know that your sins are about to be open for others to see and judge you as well!
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While I respect this individuals right to express their point of view, their statement seems contrary to what Christianity stands for. From my readings of the bible, it appears that Christ was against Judgement amongst men. That was something that was left up to the “father”, according to the gospel. So where does this “open for others to see and judge you as well! ” come from? This is why I am constantly turned off by those who advocate religion. Who gave this person the answers to that which created us? No matter what faith you practice you have NO right to believe that your way is the ONLY acceptable way. (there have been too many wars in this world driven by lack of religious tolerance) I don’t like people preaching doom and gloom because of their OPINION or PERSPECTIVE BUT NOT FACT! Tired of people throwing around their interpretation as the end all to be all. Thats NONSENSE. Being agnostic for me means not being so full of myself that I believe my own conclusions as facts for the rest of the world to agree. There are sevral major religions, who is to say which is “RIGHT”? And while we are at it I have seen more non-Christ-like christians then a little bit. It’s almost like they haven’t read the very book they are claiming to live by.
What you said about Jesus and judging is interesting I will have to delve into it deeper internally. What I know now is that; in this case people judge because as a legal issue it is going to be officially judged. At the same time we have to be careful with media generatd off things like Twitter these days you have to wait and see if the news is authentic or gossip; obviously in this case it’s real.
I chose to be a Christian… like many other folks. I was born into a Catholic environment, then I became athiest, and explored alot. Everything from Nation of Islam, to the 5 Percent, Buddhism, and a few others. I even explored the native religions of my ancestors, as difficult as it was I did it. As an adult I find the Nondenominational Christian model works for me. I do not view myself to be indoctrinated in any sense of the word. I believe Jesus was a prophet, but that does not exclude any other prophets that walk the Earth, past or present. So I can firmly state that I chose to be a Christian. I am a finite man in an infinite universe, and I can humbly state that I need something to lean on and I choose Him.
In reading several comments in several articles in reference to Eddie Long, I hear everyone either stand up for Eddie Long or curse him, religion, God, and/or the parishioners for their beliefs.
The sad part is so many people claim to know the bible and has never mentioned the Satan the devil as being a part of all the evil going on in the world. If they see a accident or hear bad news the first thing people say is, “oh my God”! Do, anyone not remember who deceived Eve? It was the devil. Do anyone remember after Jesus had fasted for 40 days & 40 nights and was approached by Satan, & satan offered him the world if he would do one act of worship to him?
Remember the conversation God & Satan had about Job because Job was serving God and was rich, and God said you can do anything to him except take his life?
So, sometimes God test us to see if we are going to be faithful. But he said he will not let us go through anything without anything without giving us the strength need to bear what we are going through. And this is why you have faithful Christians like myself.
It is important to read the bible for yourselves. I also agree that people are misusing religion as they have centuries ago, including when Jesus was on this earth & he had to get the Jews straight about that. Selling things and making money on the basis of his fathers name. He was so angry he started turning the tables over in the temple, saying they were making a “mockery” of his father.
Jesus set the example as to how religious leaders should lead & teach the flock. He fed the people physically & spiritually free without charging a dime. Jesus had a job, as a carpenter. His disciples had jobs as well. God says you should give freely. He wouldn’t want us to give to churches and we can’t pay our bills, mortgages, rent, etc. Everything should be done from the heart. What you give, should be between you and God, unless you need something for tax purposes. If you have to show your W2 & bank statements to attend a church, please read your bible again! Do you know the meaning of the Greek & Hebrew meanings of the words? You can’t take one scripture out of context, you have to read what comes before and after.
When you examine the body & earth, you have to believe in God! Sometimes you never know what a person go through, that is why you have to season your words with salt.
But Davey D asked who will pray for these boys? Since this article was printed , I’ve learned that Jamal Parris before he filed this suit at one time attempted suicide & wrote a letter to Eddie Long. It brought me to tears, because all I could think of was my son. Everyone seem to forget these boys didn’t have their fathers in their lives. Most was attending his school from age 13. Now if these accusations came from a private school, would we have the same doubts or have to wait for court? Did Jesus have to wait for court to rebuke his disciples when they were wrong?
One of the boys tried to have a girlfriend, he made him break up with her, while he had a wife. How can you imagine this could be for a young person confusing their sexuality & their mind? As a African American Christan mother, it would take my God to hold me back from this man doing this to my son, and everyone praying for me & my son. So, please pray for the mothers as well as the boys, because I know the mothers feel so much guilt and pain. Not to mention the harassment & threats, they are getting.
Peace!
This type of issues concerning about the bishop must be really not tackle too much in the public to avoid the unnecessary talking or accused regarding the issue.
Dag on right Eddi messed them boys heads up. That’s why I say even though it is not technically rape, the difference in age and life station make these kids victims. Most jobs have ethics codes where you can’t date subordinates because of the power dynamic and potential for abuse.
What he did is evil.
What I trip off now is Eddie trying to victim stance. The media is against me, blah, blah, we got to fight these attacks, blah, blah, I’m being portrayed wrong, blah-blah.
I don’t want to hear that; ain’t nobody feeling sorry for you. You know how the media is they report the good, look for the bad, and love the ugly. Right now Eddie lying-all-a-Long is the ugliest thing in sight.