//
For the Love of Marriage and the Hatred of Gays
By Davey D
I am always amazed at the type of excuses one makes and the type of reverting to hate that one takes when it comes to the issue of homosexuality and in recent days Gay Marriage.
Over the past year since Prop 8 was introduced on the California ballot, outlawing Gay Marriage, but worded in such a way as to let people think they were ‘protecting marriage’ I have had more than my fair share of spirited discussions that have resulted in one too many people screaming and shouting and really getting bent out of shape.
The usual argument that’s put forth is one steeped in religion. People wanna quote Leviticus , Mark, Romans and every other book as if a few quotes from the Bible should suddenly be the final word when they themselves have ignored the demands of those quotesthat apply specifically to them and their own behavior before and after the passages that referred to man sleeping with man. I tell you its funny when you think about it..
It wasn’t to long ago that I ran into a brother who went on and on about how immoral it was for gay marriage to take place and that it was an affront to God. He talked about the sancty of marriage and all that good stuff. Dude was on a roll until I quielty reminded him that he was living in sin. At the time dude was living with his girlfriend. I reminded him that his ‘choice of behavior’ (him playing house) was doing very little to promote marriage he held in such high esteem. What made it even worse was that homeboy is a bit of player -he wasn’t the most faithful crayon on the box. It was no big deal for him to get alittle on the side here and there, yet he felt compelled to stand before me and talk about the evils of gay marriage. I was like; ‘Son shouldn’t you clean your own house first?’
As I often have to remind folks-here in California, amongst a younger generation of people marriages end in divorce to a whooping 70% of the time. What are these self righteous people that hate gay marriage and want to keep the so called sancty intact doing to to lower that rate?
Are they writing the ABCs, NBCs and CBS’ of the world demanding that they put out more programming that nurtures values that would lead to longer marriages? Are they demanding more Bill Cosby– ‘Huxtable type shows? Are they demanding that these multimedia corporations cease doing reality shows that routinely mock marriage by making it a shallow commodity that is won and lost in a ‘reality TV contest? The answer? Nope they’re pretty silent.
Are these folks going to local school board meetings demanding that we have classes that teach people how to communicate and have ‘healthy’ wholesome relationships? Are they out there petitioning the governor or the legislature to demand that those seeking a marriage license take some sort of class or orientation to help lower the divorce rate? The answer? Nope, again folks are pretty damn silent.
Are they putting forth their own youtube videos and going directly into the places and spaces where relationships are most troubled and offering guidance? The answer? Hardly. But talk about gay marriage and all the stops are pulled out.. All the troops are called. People are up in arms carry signs and acting all appauled.
Last year I saw an entire family complete with kids come out in full force to another part of town to protest Gay Marriage. They were out everynight for two weeks leading up to the election come rain or shine . They were outraged that gays wanted to get married.
I went out to interview them, cause I was curious and awestruck by their commitment to be outb there everyday grinding away against gay citizens. I went to interview them and they hit the roof. They got pretty upset and demanded I oput my camera awy. they covered their faces with placards admonishing gay marriage.
One of the family members bragged how she was from the ‘Murder Dubs’ (the 20s) in East Oakland so that somehow gave her street cred when debating this issue. They were loud and proud that they werre people of color who were standing up to Gay marriage, but didn’t wanna be filmed. I thought it was ironic that they would leave their own troubled community where you have large numbers of unmarried people with kids and broken homes to protest gay marriage.
I was just in the murder dubs the other week and didn’t see that family out and about protesting fathers who weren’t paying child support or protesting young people fornicating without protection and then having kids. Didn’t see them before, didn’t see them then and I don’t see them now. But like I said, talk about Gay marriage and the entire family comes out-How laughable is that? It was even more laughable when one of the family members of this Christ fearing church going family called me a ‘faggot’.
Here I am a proud member of Allen Temple Baptist church who is heterosexual, but when having discussion amongst these so called fellow Christians… well lets just say the convo and the names they called me weren’t very Christ-like-What would Jesus do if he there to witness that? I prayed for them and kept it moving. I also resisted the temptation to be vindictive and put them on blast by showing their ugliness in the video I shot.
The other argument that is often put forth is ‘These gays want to have sex and its wrong, wrong ,wrong’. I have to again remind people, that gays do not need permission or laws on the books to have sex. The sodomy laws of this country have been struck down years ago. You can sleep with who ever you want.
I also have to remind people that its pretty shallow and ass backwards to get married just to have sex. I know I wouldn’t go out like that? Why would Gays? The last point to this argument is that very rarely-in fact I have never walked down the street and saw a couple engaged in passionate sex. Last I checked its against the law. You would be charged with lewd behavior. Hence I think just as common sense applies to me it would apply to two gay adults. No lewd and lascivious behavior or go to jail. Memo to those opposed to Gay Marriage : It Is Not About Sex. Personally I oftyen wonder why the folks so opposed to gay marriage always bring up the sex thing. Makes me wonder whats up with that? Are they repressing something? mmmm
The third argument we often hear is people claiming being Gay is choice not something that comes from birth.. For the moment lets agree to disagree and follow this twisted logic. We allow marriage license to those who have in the past and presently make all sorts of choices that challenge ‘sociatel norms’ Case in point, there was a point in time where interracial marriage was not allowed. If my grandfather wanted to marry a white woman as a youing man in South carolina, not only would he not get the license he might’ve gotten his as hung on a tree by some funny guys wearing hoods and white sheets carrying and quoting from the Bible.
There were all sorts of well meaning people who put forth a variety of social reasons and concerns that justified the laws on the books preventing Blacks, Browns and Asians to marry whites people. There was concern about the kids. There was concern about diluting the race. There was concern about sparking racial unrest. In some communities there were religious implications.. i.e. One did not marry outside the religion. Jews and Catholics come to mind. In spite of those supposedly compelling social concerns and the desire to keep societal norms in tact those laws were struck down.
So in 2009 if I want to leave a Afrocentric Church where we talk about re-building the Black family, I can be sporting dredlocks, quoting Malcolm and wearing all sorts of kente cloth and go out and marry blonde haired, blue eyed Pamela Anderson and there’s not damn thing anyone can do except scowl, get mad and shun me. They can do all that and maybe they won’t agree to grant me a marriage ceremony at their church, but I sure as hell can get that marriage license. Why so?
For starters we live in a country where one has a right to assemble and associate. We also live in a country where I am free to choose my religion. So in other words if Jewish people feel that they should marry other Jews for whatever social or religious reasons, that’stheir prerogative if I wanna marry someone from a Jewsish background as did my mother I have that right. Sure, I might be able to go to Temple and partake in their particular marriage ceremonies, Churches have a right to uphold their traditions, but as a tax payer I sure has hell should be allowed to go down to city hall and pick up a marriage license. My tax dollars pay for it. Gays pay taxes and should have a right to that legal document. Why is that child molesters, rapists, serial murders can all get marriage license but a hard working, law abiding tax paying gay adult cannot?
And really folks that’s the bottom line here. All this other talk is mute. All citizens who pay taxes have a right to go to public school. We have right to have the potholes repaired in our neighborhood. We have right to be protected by the police and fire departments. We have a right to address our grievances at city hall. We have right to pick up land deeds. We all our required to pay taxes. And we all have a right to be married by the justice of the peace in city hall. It don’t matter if I’m a Black man wanting to marry a devout white Catholic. It don’t matter if I’m a dog killer like Michael Vick who who himself is set to get married.-No one is holding back his license. It don’t matter if I’m a atheist or agnostic or even a devil worshipper. I am under the laws of this country allowed to obtain a marriage license-Why can’t gays? Why are people so afraid?
mmmm thats a few words to ponder..
Below are a couple of videos from the discussions that ensued during the May 26 supreme court decision in San Francisco.
Return to Davey D’s Hip Hop Corner
“Over the past year since Prop 8 was introduced on the California ballot, legalizing Gay Marriage”
Please tell me that was a typo! Seriously if you voted YES on 8, but you are FOR gay marriage rights, Houston… Like how many folks in CA did that you think? Enough to effect the outcome? Probably. It only passed 52.24% to 47.76%.
70% of Blacks voted YES.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
I’m all for partners getting one another’s benefits, but this “gay marriage” doesn’t even sound right. Marriage is marriage – a man taking a vow to a woman. Black people are so confused they don’t know what to support, been helping ignorant people – hurt our people for so long it doesn’t make sense. Stop copying Jews and white people and think for yourselves.
If I have sex with a cat and want to marry a cat – is it discrimination if you say its wrong? When black people try to equate homosexaulity with black people’s historical struggle they need to be shot! When black people stand up and fight for “repairations” (Self preservation) and recieve it, gay people can marry who ever who they want because justice has been served for our race. Rashida is ignorant.
If I have sex with a cat and want to marry a cat – is it discrimination if you say its wrong? When black people try to equate homosexaulity with black people’s historical struggle they need to be shot! When black people stand up and fight for “repairations” (Self preservation) and receive it, gay people can marry who ever who they want because justice has been served for our race. Rashida is ignorant.
Just because the “Black Man” doesn’t agree with you doesn’t means he hates you. Who else do you think God made the the “moral conscience” or KIng Solomon’s of this earth in the the image of?
Very interesting Dave… VERY interesting.
I believe that the consciousness of Black America,.. specifically embodied in the Spirit in what we call the Black Church today, it has been historically the moral compass of this country. So for equal rights, it has led the way (not hip hop!) and in this case by and large the spirit says “No”.
Sorry Dave, you may need give those checks back.
Thank you Davey for so eloquently telling it like it is…
It really helps to read your words when there is such a plethora of angry, religious rhetoric floating around right now.
It doesn’t have to be so damn complicated people…
Love is NEVER a bad thing…
A monogamous, long standing, committed relationship between two loving people can only help us and strengthen our communities.
Heterosexuals are making a mockery of marriage right now with the high divorce rate. Gays have had to fight so hard for this right that they respect the sanctity of marriage in a way heteros cannot.
Peace
Davey D, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I will only give one quote from the Bible if you will bear with me, “Those of you without sin cast the first stone”. I’m not a religious fanatic but I will say that God put us all on this earth for a reason. There is no dicrimination in his eyes. We are all sinners no matter if you are homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. If people are in a long-term monogamos relationship, what’s the problem? Please tell me how gay marriage is going to affect disrupt or improve the economy or how people get jobs?
I don’t like how people try to use the Bible to rationlize their prejudice. It’s an old game and Lucifers design. There are only three holy books in the New Testament. The rest Roman (Pauls) philosophy. The Old Testament was written with cultural allowances that have become dated. The Koran; a temporal manisfestation designed as a hedge.
The truth is going to hurt, crush and destroy all they thought to such an extent only a few of us will be left standing. This work in progress called man. What would Jesus say; duck. Our universal destiny doesn’t even use marriage. Intimate pairing on natural term period. Children raised by scientific commune. So D play the moment how it needs to for the sake of budding enlightment. But you know what it is. Need a new job chief.
Monkey paws extinct evolutions socio-sexual free flowing links non-aggressive future cerebelum levitates sheets common he-she
Well robert I see you were trying to be funny or sarcastic with your cat example, but you kind of made my point.. Quite often in this country.. the same city hall where u must go to get your marriage license.. the tax payer marriage license is the same city hall that honors your will.. As you know Robert its not unsual for people who are attached to their pets to leave everything from land to money to their dogs and cats. We all know the case of the millionaire heiress in NY who left millions to her pet dog..If I can leave land and money to a cat why can’t gays get married again??
To Jose.. the Black church is varied.. and some churches are conscious raising and some are full of shit.. so which church are you talking about..? some churches have done a pretty sorry job being anyones conscious.. So I’ll kepp those checks.. thanks
D
thank you for this piece…black people and the black church are varied, the decision does not speak for all. Also 70% of black people did not vote for it, a study showed that people who went to church across racial boundaries voted for it. Please dont get “facts” from wikipedia.
“I prayed for them and kept it moving.”
interesting read.
Peace,
Sp!zz
Dave, we do not agree on this gay stuff and my point about the cat, but I have mad respect for you because you are a “real” person and bringing some info. May not be what I want to hear, but I respect your and the people you interviews points. Atleast you giving them a voice. That’s peace!!!
You want to know the bottom line about “gay marriage” and “gay rights”? It all boils down to the LOSS OF “WHITE PRIVILEGE.”
If a White person shuts his/her mouth (i.e. “being in the closet”), nobody is going to know that they are gay. When they say they’re gay/lesbian, then “BAM!” They get harassed. That’s why many White gays say that they know what Black folks go through when it comes to discrimination, when they really DON’T HAVE A CLUE!
This really isn’t an issue in The Black Community as a whole. Even Black gays must admit that they must fight for the right to be accepted as being “Black” before they can even think about being accepted for being gay.
I’m not trying to be funny or to be a smart-ass, but that’s how it boils down to. If White gays weren’t being harassed about their lifestyle choice, you wouldn’t hear jack about “gay rights.”
Just my 2 cents…
T, I agree with you. I voted no on prop 8 because I don’t believe in any kind of discrimination. But one thing that irks me about the so called “gay” community, particularly the white gay community, is their lack of compassion for issues that black people are facing today. I’m white, and I spend a lot of time on blogs by white liberals, some gay, some straight, and getting them to show any concern for inner city issues is an uphill battle. They don’t like hip hop, they refuse to accept it. They take the side of law enforcement when law enforcement violates the constitutional rights of poor minorities. It’s amazing. So liberal when it comes to their rights, yet when there’s a gang injunction? “Good. Get the scumbags off the street. Who cares if there’s an innocent person or two that gets wrapped up in it. It’s worth it. I’m sick of crime”, etc. It’s almost like they feel like they have to hawk it to the right on issues like that just to suck up to conservative whites. Their rights are sacred. But they’re willing to hand over blacks and Latinos to the prison industry in exchange for being accepted as Americans by the Christian Right. One problem….they needed the votes of blacks and Latinos last November. And they didn’t get it. And, I can’t help but to think if it’s because of their total lack of compassion for minorities beforehand. Something tells me that if gays had reached out to the black community more, especially on simple issues where blacks were obviously being mistreated by a police force or any government agency, you’d have to believe more blacks would have voted down prop 8 despite their so called religious convictions. If the gay community wants to compare themselves to blacks whenever they’re mistreated by the establishment, they’d better learn to humble themselves and support black issues when it’s their call to step up and use their political power to help black people.
Dave thanks for the good read. It is amazing the blatant hypocrisy the average person uses to justify their opinions. You hit the nail on the head about blacks worrying about gay marriage when their own divorce rate is 50% What does it matter if you claim your defending the sanctity of marriage if your not respecting the vows of your own? Do people honestly think their going to get kudo’s from God because they stop something like Proposition 8? Do they think that putting obstacles in a homosexuals way is gonna get them any closer to heaven? If your a sinner (which we all are) do you think God’s gonna overlook your sinful ways because you spoke out against the homosexual?
It’s truely sad us as black people continue to limit ourselves and our mindsets focusing on the trivial things when we have devastatingly high jail rates, H.I.V. rates, unemployment rates, heart disease, diabetes e.t.c. and violent urban warfare in our own communities that we are the cause of. Instead of focusing on these issues and finding common ground and common solutions we focus instead on things like a fight to stop gay marriage? Seriously? We wanna focus on the “down-low” phenomenon mad that black men are bisexual or not. Well if we stop judging them maybe they’d come out the closet and tell who they are instead of living a lie outta fear. That works both ways.
Who cares if gays, or bisexuals wants gay marriage? I don’t. I want to know how were gonna find jobs so men can take care of their families. I want a cure or better awareness for H.I.V. (another issues we seem to not want to address). I want our brotha’s educated and in school and out of the prision system. I want us to be informed about financial responsibilty, living a long and heathy life that does not include alcohol or blunts. I want our male rappers to stop the verbal and sexual assult of our beautiful black women. I want our churches to stop hiding behind b.s. and continuing in so many ways to be part of the problem and not the solution. With all this on our plate who gives a damn if two people of the same sex are in love and only ask for the same rights and benefits of their heterosexual counterparts? It is amazing to me that a minority group who was so badly mistreated would ever treat another minority group (any minority group) in a negative way. Now we have rights power and influence so now in essence we become the white man lynching homosexuals?
If homosexuality is wrong let God deal with that and concern yourself with what YOU need to do to get in his good graces! There’s gonna be alot of people left on this planet that spewed hatred thinking they were doing God’s work hating gays wondering why their still here. This is NOT what we should be focusing on!
Black people can empathize with “gay” white people or anyone for that matter, but let’s not put homosexuality before “repairations” (self-preservation) is my arguement. Don’t push this gay crap during a Black man’s watch (Obama), you didn’t try it under Bush/Cheney. We do not hate gays, however, we’d love “repairations”. Where’s your support for “us” on that?!!!
This is ultmatelly an argument about what your ultmate authority is going to be is it going to be God or your conception of what is right. Gays should not be harrased or intmeidated that’s just basic human decency. As far marriage let’s say a guy wants to marry his cousin by your logic we shouldnt say anything . Also acceptance of homosexuality has always been a precrusour to the downfall of a nation look at Greece, Rome, and The Ottoman Empire.
Aaron first with respect to the fall of civilizations.. Lots of empires have fallen.. The rape and faq.ll of Africa/Kmet was that the result of homosexuality or did it even exist in Africa? When discussions like this come up we always hear folks say ‘No such thing existed among the Black man..So what was our downfall
When the Japanese empire fell was that due to homosexual activity? Thats just plain ridiculous.. Civilizations fall for a variety of reasons.. Greed and unchecked imperialism are usllay the main culprits and a nation falls upon iself..
As for cousins marrying each other..You can marry your cousin in someplaces.. It definitely wasn’t an usual practice in societies that wished to keep the bloodline pure..Buit if we are concerned about the sancty of marriage being violated why do we allow rapsits and killers to get married? Why do we allow marriage to be won in a realty TV show contest?
Mr. Davey, obviously you support “gay rights” and marriage. You have that right, but when you start trying to push that non-sense on my family and kids I have a problem with it. This is your website, so if we don’t like it, we don’t have to visit it. But you can’t persuade me to accept homosexuality. I get along with gay people, just don’t bring that crap near me and my kids and try to have my kids thinking that’s the normal thing to do. Dave, you must have a heavy gay following out there on the west coast, because you know if you was back here on the East Coast you’d be suspect. And don’t use the gay/Kemet argument please! You people will go to any length to support your perversions.
Imagine if someone said, “I get along with black people, just don’t bring that crap near me and my kids and try to have my kids thinking that’s a normal way to act”. And your bringing up west coast/east coast differences, like this is Bad Boy vs. Death Row in the ’90s or something, is about the gayest thing anyone’s ever done on this blog.
Bottom line is that since marriage is a legal act, it can not discriminate against anyone. Thats why the supreme court is about to strike down prop 8. California’s court upheld it because they know the supreme court’s going to shoot it down, anyway. So, that way they can make it look like they went along with the voters, and keep the AM radio nuts off their back. But the initiative is unconstitutional, and that’s how the US supreme court is going to see it. People who only want marriage to be between man and woman only have one option, and that’s to start a new kind of marriage sanctioned by the church, which only allows men and women to marry each other. The downside is that it will not be official. Anyone can leave the marriage at any time. It’s all symbolic. If you want a legal binding marriage, and all legal benefits that go with marriage, then it can not discriminate against anyone, by race, creed, religion,age, and, yes, sexual orientation. Guarantee you that’s how the US Supreme Court will see it.
Robert I’m from New York and back there all the time.. I’m back east right now as I write this…I still have all my peeps.. Nobody’s running around all bent out of shape.. Nobody’s taking my lunch money.. And to be honest I could care less what my being suspect adds up to…
I don’t say what I say to get a following. I have no idea whether I have a gay following or not. To be honest I don’t care.. I stand on principle..
The gay /Kemet article was simple dude said civilizations fell because of homosexuality.. Really? So how did African Empires fall? Was it homosexuality? Is that what did us in? Ancient Egypt? Was that what did us in homosexuality? Thats just a dumb argument anyway you slice it..
As for me pushing stuff.. Homie I have on my site about 20 different articles -Obvious this one caught your fancy..
To all my ‘No Homo-Its eveil lets do away with it fans.. if we really wanna do something about this.. how about working to stop rapes in jails..
Where’s all my holier than thou.. God fearing Christians..They out there in from of Rikers, Clinton, Quentin, Pelican Bay demanding prison rapes end? Are they demanding that there be no homosexual relationships behind those walls? Are they out there insisting this come to an end? Are they out there counseling people who have been raped? Lemme look around and see…. aaah its just as I thought -Silence.. wait wait, I do see some of those anti-gay folks.. yep I see them now…they out demanding more prisons be built..
RF, call me gay if you like, but you all don’t persuade me. Some of them ignorant brothers need to learn a lesson in prison. If having their male-hood snatched works -so be it. And Dave, I see your different articles. I don’t take this gay stuff personal. don’t you all. Just don’t try and push it on me, my wife, and son and daughter as if “gay marriage” is the norm. When you publicly do so, you are trying to confuse my kids now, and now “I” take that personal. “You people” – you’ll see that I do have a sense of humor, atthough I’m dead serious about 95% of the time.
Brazen – knowing your dead wrong but daring someone to say something. This article gives a new definition. In a few more days gays will be as powerful as the Jews with their “aint-semetic” hate speech rules. We can talk about anyone we want in America, just don’t touch the Jews and gays. Give us a break – “repairations to the wheels fall off”.
Robert, I didn’t say you were gay, I just said bringing up east coast/west coast differences is gay. It is. The only thing missing was you signing off with “Baaaaaaad Boyyyyy!” LOL. Anyhow, prop 8’s getting struck down by the supreme court, anyways, Robert, cause it’s unconstitutional . Anything legally binding can not discriminate, and that’s how the big 7 are going to see it. Since they botched the 2000 election decision, they’ve been dead serious about respecting the constitution. They’re thinking about their legacy, now, and a US supreme court can not have a legacy of undermining the constitution. I imagine them going 6-1 in favor of striking down prop 8, with that closet homo Roberts being the holdout. Scalia and Thomas are voting yea, guaranteed. Bush and Gore’s old lawyers from ’00 are even teaming up to make a case to the court to strike it down. It’s a done deal. And, nobody’s forcing anything on your kids, except for you pushing stupidity on them.
RF, sound like you know someone on the Supreme Court. Call it “pushing stupidity” on my children, but my name isn’t going to go on with my son being plugged in the butt and my daughter dildoing her Butch. Sounds ignorant, doesn’t it. This is real, RF. I don’t know if you grew up with two parents that procreated you and stuck together or not, but that’s how its supposed to be done. I ain’t going to agrue with you all, like you said “I’m teaching my kids stupidity” because common-sense says you ain’t going to procreate plugging no man up the butt and rubbing coochies together. I love my cat, but that don’t mean I have to marry it. This will be my last comment. i’m sounding “suspect”.
I don’t know anyone on the supreme court. I just read. You should learn to do it.
If your son wants to get butt plugged when he’s an adult, it’s what he’ll do, rather you like it or not.
As far as you marrying your cat, you brought that up, not me. Is that an east coast thing?
“Brazen”