A Message to Hip Hop-We Need to Do More than Just Wear Green

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A Message to Hip Hop-We Need to Do More than Just Wear Green

by Davey D

daveyd-raider2Here’s a message to the Iranian Youth…Hip Hop is with you. We understand that what is going on in Iran is not about what America wants. We understand that this is not about the dictates of those who have a particular foreign policy agenda to push that at the end of the day may be calling for Iran to be destabilized. 

Hip Hop is with you above and beyond a rap song, a dope video or meaningless swagger. Hip Hop is with you beyond a slogan or a shout out. Hip Hop is with you beyond the ignorance of some of our artists who wanna brag about having ‘Arab Money’.  Hip Hop is with you by honoring the 5th Element-Knowledge. Hip Hop is with you in solidarity and hoping to uplift our collective humanity.

We understand that what we’re seeing in Iran is a student movement, a women’s movement and other reform movements that have been simmering in Iran for some time. We can trace some of this back to 1999 when we here in the US were watching our own Presidential elections between George Bush and Al Gore which was tossed into dissarray  while students in Tehran University were out in the streets of Iran getting killed and student organizers were being snatched off the streets never to be seen again.  A few years ago I met students who had been jailed and beaten up by the Iranian government for protesting. They had a lot of heart. They were at a conference on censorship in Beirut in spite of knowing that their speaking out could get them serious trouble again.

What were seeing our people who feel that there should be more personal freedoms, where women don’t have to cover up, be searched and beaten on the streets. What we’re seeing are folks who want to have more then just state run press.  Part of the fights that students were dealing with in ’99 was the shutting down of a newspaper.  Most of us don’t even blink an eye when our own newspapers and radio stations are hijacked.  What we’re seeing don’t want to adhere to long standing traditions and they’re challenging long standing traditions which has been inspired by the Western education and understanding that many have received outside the country and from understanding the world is much smaller place.

Before CNN started talking about Iran, many of us ignored or didn't even know about the student & woman's movements in Iran. We spent more time focused on the drama between 50 Cent & Rick Ross.From this day forward we've got to do better...

Before CNN started talking about Iran, many of us ignored or didn't even know about the student & woman's movements in Iran. We spent more time focused on the drama between 50 Cent & Rick Ross.From this day forward we've got to do better...

Sadly most of us never pay attention to foreign affairs unless it shows up on CNN.  Hence when there were no lights cameras and action and Iranians were demanding certain changes most of us were concerning ourselves with 50 Cent vs. Rick Ross. Most of us were talking about Chris Brown vs. Rihanna. Do folks know any of the movement leaders?  Do we know the name of any of the student organizations?  Do any of know about the jail time that many have endured to speak out? Is this really about them backing the opposition candidate Mir Hussein Moussavi or is about stepping to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? How many of us know the role the president plays in relationship between the Supreme leader?

Let’s use this opportunity to embrace Hip Hop’s 5th element and do the knowledge.  Part of that knowledge means for us to start listening closely and resist framing the story so it fits our own limited parameters. When we say things like most of the people marching are middle-class what exactly does that mean? Is it the same thing as middle class here in the US? Are the people marching Muslim or Christian? Are they westernized or traditional? Is Iran a modernized country or does it fall into a stereotype where it’s underdeveloped with folks riding camels through a desert?  Folks better think again and note that in many regards we here in the US may actually be behind.

I said this in my last essay-Are the Protests in Iran Real or a CIA backed Exercise? this is much bigger than the two leaders. They happen to be stepping stones and stops along the way to something much larger and much more deeply felt.  How about this folks… if we’re gonna wear Green in solidarity with the Iranian people and their struggle, how about stepping our personal game up? If we’re gonna wear Green and say we want change how about committing ourselves to stay up on foreign news long after CNN stops covering this? How about making Iran, Darfur, Congo and Haiti which just experienced a horrific blood bath two days ago between funeral marchers and UN Peacekeepers, be a topics we tweet about and comment on via Facebook? Can we make a promise amongst ourselves to educate ourselves each day on a variety of foreign issues?

If we can’t do this at the very least take down our Green avatars and stop bullshitting ourselves and disrespecting the people who are out on those streets not just in Iran but all over the world really risking getting their heads cracked. There’s no excuse for Iranian people to know more about President Obama’s policies then we do and they live in Iran. If we’re gonna wear Green, let’s not do this part time. Let’s not be casual trendy observers. This struggle in Iran is not going to be over and neatly wrap up at a particular time and date like a television show. It’s gonna be on going.  

If we're gonna wear Green to show solidarity, how about taking it a step further & educating ourselves on US Foreign policy-For example, what's the real motivation behind Senator John McCain and the GOP in condemning Iranian leaders? Is it really to support the student & women's movement or to merely use them?

If we're gonna wear Green to show solidarity, how about taking it a step further & educating ourselves on US Foreign policy-For example, what's the real motivation behind Senator John McCain and the GOP in condemning Iranian leaders? Is it really to support the student & women's movement or to merely use them?

If we want change in Iran let that change be right here at home. If we want to wear Green lets take a closer look at the rhetoric being pushed by our Republican minority in the Senate and in Congress.  President Obama is taking a measured tone saying let’s not become the topic at hand  be seen as meddlers while Senator John McCain and others are basically saying ‘Fuck that.. We gonna jump right on in there and start smashing because they have an agenda that they’re trying to push that has very little to do with the student movements’. The GOP will use those movements and temporary align themselves, but it’s not about making sure students a free from any oppression. Are they helping, hurting or leading us in another direction?

If we’re wearing Green, we need to be asking ourselves what’s’ up with our own government and its foreign policy-not just in Iran but throughout the entire Middle East. Maybe if more of us wearing Green committed ourselves to do the knowledge, Iran wouldn’t be in this predicament because we would be electing leaders who have a deeper, more holistic approach toward the Middle East -starting with us not green lighting everything Israel does. Yes, folks at the end of the day let’s deal with the 800 pound gorilla in the room much of what we are seeing is connected to US/ Israeli foreign policy…

That’s a few things to ponder…

 -Davey D-

It's cool to wear Green in solidarity but ideally we should show solidarity by being as bold as those students on the streets by fearlessly challenging and asking our own government some hard questions especially around the issue of foreign policy

It's cool to wear Green in solidarity but ideally we should show solidarity by being as bold as those students on the streets by fearlessly challenging and asking our own government some hard questions especially around the issue of foreign policy

PS..As I’m writing this I’m watching TV and noting that the big networks are claiming they can’t cover the events in Tehran because of a news media blackout imposed by the Iranian government…Its  kind of funny hearing this, because  we seem to always have our own  media blackout here in the US. Of course those blackouts are  imposed by the news directors and owners of these big networks-but let’s not digress.  My question is what happened to all those expensive spy satellites that are supposed to be able to see the head of pin from thousands of miles away? What’s up with Google Earth? There’s no excuse for us not to be able to see whats going on? Why aren’t we using all this technology we brag about having?

 

 

 

 

 

  Below is a video that my homie Paradise of X-Clan tunred me onto it’s by Weapons X

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Comments

  1. Nice piece. I wish folks would jump on the bandwagon here at home. I hope everyone who wore green this week remembers those images in Iran. The mass protesters – despite our ingnorance of the history and social/political realities in Iran – and take a cue to bring the same effort to our streets here in the USA. Let’s send the same message to our Government. We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore. Join me on the street July 4th, 2009.

  2. Where does the notion that “Hip Hop supports you” even come from?.. I didn’t know that hip hop had a singular voice spearheaded by Davey D..Why do people try to give this hip hop thing attributes that it clearly doesn’t have?

  3. It comes from having confidence to make a bold statement from the place in which you stand Jose You speak what you would like to manifest..

    ie. My people, My crew, Our folks, our generation… we stand behind you.. we rep this point..

    and hell yeah if I have the mic or pen..then my singular voice reps what I say it reps.. complete with the attributes I give it.. Do i need you or someone to sign off on shit..? take the article in the spirit in which it was written..

  4. Davey, while i think its important we be involved in these discussions:

    1. I wish you would have made this kind of bold declaration of support behind our own Green Party movement of McKinney/Clemente prior to the election of Obama. Election fraud is not just stealing votes. The bigger fraud is rendering those votes moot via the “hidden primary” process of selecting electoral options that assure only one group truly wins (banksters). hip-hop “politics” as their called are still largely bought-off, non-profit, neo-colonial democratic party supporters with no organized radical platform. we are in no position to council or even support another country’s efforts.

    2. You seem, in this piece and the other one to which you link, to dismiss (i dont even think you mention it) the fact that the CIA did, in fact, steal Iran’s government with Kermit Roosevelt in the 50s. There is verifiable, documented evidence of there being a precedent. (I dont know shit about Iran, nor do most who continue to comment on that nation, but I do know this country and its history of overthrow — including the attempt on Chavez only a couple of years ago and our own internal radical political movements, see point #1).

    3). And brother Jose, no functioning political grouping would deny some degree of cohesive voice. when people (like many Black “pundits” like to suggest for example) say that their community’s politics are not “monolithic” they fall for a political trap. hip-hop should have a more or less unified voice and agenda. it should never claim to have no leadership or representation or cohesive platform. that only weakens the “hip-hop community.” or it proves another point about there being no such community. which is another long discussion.

    that said, thanks davey for keeping it all in the mix.
    jared

  5. hip hop couldn’t even save itself from its self when it had the chance.

  6. Thanks, Davey, I appreciate your point of view.

    Iranians have a long road ahead of them even after the election has passed and the dust has settled. Like Tienanmen Square, what’s happening in Iran now will no doubt have a long-term affect on the global democracy. And I appreciate your deeper look at how their election and outcry impact the U.S. and vice versa (haven’t read your CIA piece yet–but looking forward to it).

    Having said all of that, in my very humble opinion, Hurricane-Katrina-esque, Feed-Africa-esque trend media coverage is off-putting because it trivializes the issue and makes way for opportunists who can exploit the situation. The use of social networking to spread the message is revolutionary, but I think it can have the same impact as CNN’s “Breaking News (for now).” I believe it is tremendous the people of Iran are using technology to further their cause–and spawning a communication-revolution as a result. Yet I cannot personally relate to the “wear green avatar” movement that feels like it will leave nothing but a littered amphitheater when all is said and done. The world of the Iranians is so far from mine. I only hope for global peace and hope the outcome leads to that.

  7. Jared i think thats a bit unfair w/ your first remarks on a couple of levels.. first.. it implies that I never spoke boldy about voter fraud?? and as a result perhaps I should not be speaking about such things now..Are you kidding me?

    Voter fraud and all its dimensions and manifestations has been a consistent topic for me over the years to the point of ad nauseum..

    Name the pundit, politician activist etc.. there were all enaged on all my outlets and wrote way too many articles.. from 2001 and actually prior to that , including the 2004 article in san jose merc where i got censored and had the column pulled.. for referencing Bush stealing votes in Ohio.. your way off base to imply otherwise..

    During the primaries I talked alot about voter suppresion and fraud especially when I saw it up close and personal jumping off in Southern Cali-during super tuesday.. I definitely I wrote about it

    During the primaries I gave ample platforms, space and opportunities for those ‘bold declarations’ about voter frauds and all its ups and downs throughout the last election season..the primaries etc whether it was posting up multiple articles from Bruce, Glen , interviews with Cynthia, Rosa, yourself whoever. Not ONE day went by during that entire election season that I did not have y’all represented..on the front page of the site.. It was a commitment I made to myself to make the floor always available. I did that even though I knew I was off in a different direction.. And I don’t think it was a wrong move even now..

    i think the issue u have here is that I didn’t jump in with the Greens-

    With respect to the CIA messing with elections.. Well we can write entire books on the topic for each country we wanna point to.. I’m not naive enough to think or hide the fact that our hands our dirty even in this conflict.. But I wasn’t writing apiece on that.. That’s for others to do if they so desire.. My thing was if we’re behind the students.. which I am.. then here are some things for us to consider doing..

    Lastly with respect to Hip Hop it has unified voices and agendas if one cares to repesent it as such..and it has a million and half opinions. Your politic and ultimate goal will determine how you approach an issue, how you rep it…and ultimately how you define your community

    To some, Hip Hop has been brought and sold, to others its unbrought and unbossed, to others its everything in the middle..

    In the context of a column..as I told Jose, its the manifestation of words to move the crowd.. and I think your strong suit Jared is that you have a keen understanding of history and certain facts that you should move us with by sharing so we can come away better informed or at least have food for thought..

    I think its going in circles with no end in sight if we get into debates and discussions about who can and can’t speak and for what reason.. Unless someone is pointing agun to the head, people are gonna speak their minds as they should… Hopefully what we say inspires us to move in a direction that ultimately brings relief.

  8. Wow, when I started this….you had just responded to Jose…by the time I finished it all these folks had already replied….you really started a conversation here ,Davey.

    But I know how the tones, intentions and energy of a poster on the Internet can be misconstrued…. But I think I get the gist of what Jose was saying.

    Cuz’ when I read this, I found myself trying to find a connection in your article that even remotely supports your opening premise of how this collective personified Hip Hop thingy is galvanized around the struggle or the message that the folks of Iran are trying to send to their gov’t and the world.
    You give some historical overview…but your own statements regarding how hip hop culture stereotypes or vilifies Middle Easterners (as Persians are not Arabs) or doesn’t critically think by exploring the world outside of popular media and culture contradicts the initial premise of Hip Hop supporting this movement.

    I get that because of your consciousness and the consciousness of some of the folks in the industry who may think outside of the box like you…that yeah, you guys may all may be in solidarity.

    But I think that saying something like “Hip Hop is watching, listening and attempting to learn from your example” would probably be more appropriate for Hip Hop as a collective yet non-monolithic movement.

    Hip-Hop is not there yet.

    That’s just my opinion, and I know that I’ll be BLASTED for it. But hey.

    And btw, that pix attached to your article… of person wearing green…well to me, it appears to be an expatriate at a solidarity rally for their family and people of Iran and not necessarily a random uninformed American.

    Peace,
    Omolade

  9. e-scribblah says:

    while i appreciate the spirit of this article, there are a couple of contradictory statements in it. first davey, speaking for “hop-hop” in a KRS-One-like manner, says,

    “Here’s a message to the Iranian Youth…Hip Hop is with you. We understand that what is going on in Iran is not about what America wants”

    that would be great if it were true. the fact is that no one person speaks for hip-hop, and hip-hop as a collective entity does not have a clear voice or agenda. indeed, it is often contrary.

    for example, just a few graphs later, davey says “when there were no lights cameras and action and Iranians were demanding certain changes most of us were concerning ourselves with 50 Cent vs. Rick Ross. Most of us were talking about Chris Brown vs. Rihanna.”

    see the problem?

    i’m not sure how it’s possible to understand US foreign policy in relation to Iran (or any other country) if “most of us never pay attention to foreign affairs.”

    davey, i assume by “most of us” you’re including hip-hop, right?

    so hip-hop can’t really be with Iranian youth in spirit until it first “does the knowledge,” right? hopefully when and if that happens hip-hop wont just be matching the MSM and the US government with propaganda which doesnt add up.

  10. Hey Davey D,

    I’m still reading through your article and I’m enjoying it’s sentiment so far. Although, I don’t think it is fair for you to assume that most of your readers know nothing about Obama’s Foreign Policy or anything about Iran. And even if they don’t it wouldn’t be fair to assume that they are good for nothing. If anything I have come to realize that when you are TRULY ACTIVE in various movements of social justice you can easily become saturated with many pressing concerns all at once. And in order to be effective you need to zero in on an issue and STICK WITH IT. SO in no way can I or would I pose as understanding the uprising fully. Nor do I see a need to fully understand it because I’m just trying to wrap my brain around the local garbage that is killing the you in my home town Chester PA.

    Another I think the reason you are not seeing enough QUALITY involvement with the Iranian movement by Americans, particularly young Americans” is because too many of us are inclined to practice “complaining about “National Politics” rather than “Local Politics”. It’s easy to talk stuff about the President and even Iran but it’s not as easy to talk stuff about your Local politicians because they can actually impact your life in a negative way locally. In other words too many of us are cowards when it comes to the local stuff. It’s safer to back large, broad and not so directly personal issues. Local politics are so overlooked by too many social movements in America that consider themselves “grass root”. I believe national and international policies and movements become very easy to follow symbolically and unfortunately this leads to a lot of disingenuous rallying.

    Although, I think I know where your critique of American involvement comes from but I would say that there is also a serious need for “Hip – Hop” to become much more than a forum of poets who rhyme to music but rather poets who rhyme into action. I think this is something you would like to see as well but unfortunately to say that “Hip-Hop” IS with the Iranians might easily be received cynically because Hip-Hop has such an identity crisis right now. So the question can easily become “Which Hip-Hop circle is actually behind the this Iranian Movement?”

    I think I blended a ton of concerns so apologies for that. I’m still enjoying the article and conversation. It has sparked tons of critical thought in my head. 🙂

    Power to the Iranian Youth!

  11. Ok this will be the last time I address this ..First my conversation around Iran has been primarily within Hip Hop circles.. The first article sent to me came from Jeff Change.. who wrote about how Moosavi wasn’t a reformer..I been building with people on this who are within Hip Hop cirlcles, my personal expereience and understanding was also with Hip Hop folks from over there..

    My audience who comes to this blog is primarily people who identify with this and I have in my mind an audience that sees itself as Hip Hop when speaking.. thats my first point..

    Second thing is tone, style of writing and flavor.. since this is MY blog and I am not bound by the constraints of conventional mediums I will therefore speak in a manner that I feel my audience best relates.. That means when I get on the mic or on the pad and I say

    WE aka Hip Hop aka My folks aka fill in the blanks then there is a spirit that comes with that..

    So yes absolutely 100% Hip Hop is with them and I qualified it by saying how we are with them .. which was we transcended all the bullshit and tried to connect on a human level.. spiritual level and even a rebellious level.. Thats pretty much laid out in the first paragraph..

    Now in my piece I am allowed to speak to a variety of audiences.. so I turned the mic inward and talked to us.. I was talking to those who did get caught up in Rick Ross vs 50 cent.. i was talking to those of us who knew better and still got caught up.. If the show fit you where it if not move on..

    That style of communicating is not unique to this article. Its commonplace.. we do this quite often when preaching.. I’m sure someone has some official academic term to describe it..

    Finally the gist of the article was that since we are engaged in this discussion and we say we are Hip Hop and we are connecting with people who we see as in struggle.. then lets take this a step further and not make this a one time affair.. I spelled that out there..

    So enough with the who gets to rep Hip Hop convo.. Ideally we should be building on information about what going on.. how things are being manipulated who is being compromised etc..

    This convo reminds of the arguments that arise when we as people of color talk amongst ourselves and white folks come in start setting up paremeters..and pointing out small stuff as if its really a big deal..

    Bottom-line this is one conversation where everyone raising questions honestly knew what was meant in the writting.. Those that didn’t then maybe it wasn’t for them..

  12. Muahahahahahaha…

    “hip hop couldn’t even save itself from its self when it had the chance.”.. Two stars for that one…

    and…

    “when there were no lights cameras and action and Iranians were demanding certain changes most of us were concerning ourselves with 50 Cent vs. Rick Ross. Most of us were talking about Chris Brown vs. Rihanna.”… three stars for that one… case closed.

    and a double Muahahahahaha…

  13. Desire I agree with much of what you wrote.. The gist of this was for us to think about this beyond the news cycle of CNN which is why many of us including myself are eeven discussing this.. I think I said lets get in the habit of tweeting and facebooking on different places all the time….

    at the same time this was a harsher push to some of us including myself who know better which is why I said we and not you and them.. writying is also theraputic and self motivating..

  14. Peace Brother Davey D, I am inspired and motivated by your message. I’ve been struggling with feeling powerless regarding international struggles. The question continually crosses my mind, What can I do if I’m not over there? What you’ve said here is that to impact injustice abroad, we should continually fight it at home. We must hold those who are either complicit or complacent accountable. Solidarity must go beyond the cosmetic. Thank you for pushing Hip Hop forward.

  15. Omolade says:

    Jose, you’re sick…lol

  16. I have a dream:

    Israel not pursuing more territory, Iran going toward democracy, Iraq remaining as a secular state. The US ending its alliance with the middle aged style monarchy that rules Saudi Arabia.

  17. flavorblade says:

    What are the middle Eastern and European hip-hop factions saying, writing or rapping about concerning. The Iranian election. When we say hip hop is with you we ain’t talking about bill board. I think common sense show and tells us that different spheres of hip-hop handle different things. Russel Simmons for example speaks for and represents the sphere of hip-hop that deals with economics and capitalism. Afrik Bambatta and Pardice represent the sphere of hip hop that deals with culture and social awareness via their organizations. Davey here represents the sphere of hip hop that deals with geo-politics as well as domestic social justice. No there isn’t a commision board that hands out permission to represent slips, but hip-hop doesn’t need that being a lucid sub culture from its beginning. Hip-hop can’t be held to the orders of traditional movements. 21st century is a different look. Specialization wins not generalization i.e. one leader, one grouping. To me the people doing it the biggest and best in their specialized endeavors are the representers. Even Souljah Boy keeping the youngsters excited about hip-hop. There is purpose.

  18. Does anyone have an answer to Flavorblade’s question about Iranian hip-hop? Its a good one and i know i dont.

    And Davey, the distinction im drawing is the same one i drew with you by phone before the election of this fraudulent neo-colonial obama dude. Your support for the green party effort was unprecedented in hip-hop journalism. i never doubted you there. but that is not the same as organized support/advocacy for that movement in the face of the illusion of obama/democrats. So my point remains, your advocacy here in helping to unearth an apparent fraudulent election in Iran is different than your inclusion of McKinney/Clemente (and even me) on the front page of your website and in your radio work, etc.

    Re-read my initial point. I am completely sound here in saying that the real fraud is the positioning of obama as “change” or “improvement” NOT stolen votes. Defining it that way explains the difference in what Im saying and what you misunderstood me to be accusing you of. So yes, as you said, “i think the issue u have here is that I didn’t jump in with the Greens.” Precisely. Which is why i was agreeing with your right to state that “hip-hop is behind the students.” If hip-hop is to be, that is, if it is to be an organized and clear entity it must stake out positions, defend them and organize around them. It cant just simply be some distant support whether for Iranians or green party or whatever. Thats why i told you in 2008 that I had hoped you would officially throw in with McKinney/Clemente and help build that organized and clear effort. In the end, even allowing them access to your media does not equate with the kind of clear support you show above for the Iranians. It makes you a more honest, concerned and informed journalist than most but, like i said in 2008, that isnt enough (nor is what i do for that matter so this isnt some pious dis).

    As for the CIA thing, you raised that as an issue to straw-man-like dismiss in the title of the older post. so it stands to reason that a reader should expect some acknowledgement of the CIA history (recent too!) of just this kind of manipulation/overthrow. it cant just be dismissed because the hot item of the moment are the Iranian students.

    Hip-Hop remains disorganized. Some may be more informed than others, but that does not equal organization.

  19. Sometimes we are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, and often that has been the case in U.S. presidential elections. However, if we are always hedging our bets then no real change can happen. If John McCain had won, then we would not be better off. I wish I knew all the answers, but I don’t. Yet, I wont let that stop me from proposing that the Greens hijack the republican Party.

    Anyway, in 2000 I voted for Nader because I knew what he was saying was the most just. (Eddie Vedder’s support aided my awareness ) By 2004, I hated Pearl Jam because I thought that they conspired to steal votes from Gore (divide and conquer).

    Not to digress, but is being a superpower an honor, or is it just a trick that Europe played on the US after WW2 as a way of letting our national heads swell to think we had to control the bad guys, and that made us superior. When if fact we were the cats paw that they reaped the benefits from while western Europe created/invested in health care systems. Anyway, can y’all tell I’m reading Robert Green at the moment.

    Peace

  20. Ok a couple of things.. yes I have been in contact with Hip Hop folks both here and over there.. Folks who are most visible have stated their opinions to me but do not want to go on record because they will be targets.. We’re tryinto work out away to share those voices.. Some of the perspectives have been shared..

    Jared i wrote an article suggesting ways that people who are energized about things in Iran can be energized by things here.. I offered up a perspective based upon convos I had where people felt things were shady and thats pretty much it.. I don’t understand what u mean about my advocacy..

    If some of the folks I know would go on record they would be on the front page speaking their piece where they can advocate for themselves.. hence you or anyone else being on the front page of asite was for you to shed light on those things..

    But as I mentioned I wrote about fruadulaent elections.. I had a different take on how you define .. I looked at voter supression and you saw the positioning of Obama as fraudulent- hence the best thing to do is give you the mic and let you hollar at the people.. Hopefully some minds were enlightened..

    We’ll go in circles about the CIA.. again the CIA manipulates whatever they can to their advantage.. can u name a place where it hasn’t? Its a given. But for those see it differently there’s the information you gave and others articles that go into detail. I’m not disputing those articles….I shared perspectives from what I know and understand.

    I’m still behind the students..How does any of this change the main gist of my article which is use this opportunity to expand and try to become more aware of foreign policy. Do we not want people to do this? Or do they have to be perfect in all their analysis before they start offering up opinions and thoughts?

  21. It depends on where they are offering the opinions, and who they are. For example, leaders should be near perfect before giving an opinion to the public, but those not being paid for public service can talk about the issues as they learn the facts or blog about it. Anyway, having people talk about foreign policy is a good thing. Did I just answer a rhetorical question?

  22. No doubt. So, I think it is again an issue of organization. all the best leaders emerge from within organizations and are put there (at least initially) as spokespeople for those organizations. journalists, “pundits,” talk show hosts, mixtape producers (and here im talking specifically about myself) are not leaders, have no organized constituency and are speaking for themselves. this can be helpful but also lead to unnecessary mistakes which include incomplete suggestions as to who to support or what to do about it.

    So one recent article (which i cannot verify because i know too little about Iran) recently published in Counterpunch suggests this Iranian “green movement” is part of a 2 year CIA destabilization plan for Iran. (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts06192009.html)

    It mentions the National Endowment for Democracy as being implicated in this and we’ve recently heard more about them in terms of their alleged attempts at this same kind of destabilization in Zimbabwe. (http://www.voxunion.com/?p=1294)

    Another question I would add to this, similar to the one raised on democracy now by Gerald Horne regarding Zimbabwe, is why has Iran become such a hot topic in the US now? Why is this all of a sudden so important and so well-covered? Why are we being asked/forced to pay so much attention and then, again, knowing damn well that most of us in this country have no idea what the hell is going on over there or what the power structure is or even what languages are spoken there (if i hear one more person refer to them as Arabs…!!!!) then what possible sound analysis can any of us produce on the subject? So i go here, for instance, and check out these commentaries (http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=74&jumival=400) but i have no real idea how accurate they are other than i agree with these peoples’ analyses about most of US policy where i am more familiar. So for me it returns to mostly an educated guessing game which is way a way from analysis.

    So like i said, i wish you Davey had made this kind of strong suggestion and clear support for McKinney/Clemente in helping expose the real fraud of US “democracy.” this would have come from much more familiar ground and would have helped propel us here into further and clearer organization. even liberal mainstream media are saying “what if al gore in 2000 would have made the same kind of challenge then that the Iranian students are making now to this stolen election. we might have a different country and world.” i agree, but he didnt due largely to the continuing unchecked theft and fraud of US elections, a fraud never more severely perpetrated than the one in 2008.

    the good news is that you and i and all of us will have many more opportunities to fail or succeed! LOL!!

  23. Jared.. the gist of my article again was IF you are going to wear Green and support the student movement in Iran.. then lets not make it be a one time thing.. Understand it will not be neatly packaged beginning, middle and end type of saga..

    i also suggested that we start looking at other foreign issues in other areas.. I think its good you brought up the issue of Zimbawee.. The challenge is what steps can be taken to draw interest to the issues going on there alongside Iran?

    Its good you provided links in a forum that is widely read.. Hopefully people pick up on those things and read for themselves.

    At the end of the day all this boils down to an exchange of ideas.. and how those ideas are delivered are important for folks u wish to reach.. ‘If’ leaders in whatever way one wants to define them wish to have their ideas better received one way to do so is to pick up the pen, rock the mic and say what needs to be said..in a way that makes sense for the people u reach.. Their ideas get weighed with everyone elses..

    Not all pundits are correct, not all journalist are correct and not all leaders with organized constituents are correct.. We’re all learning, we’re trying to build..

  24. All the cool cats jump on the scene wearing green faces mean, and ready to yell/ All critical thinking can go to hell.

    When group psychology takes over the realm/ Some start to care less about their own backyard/ that fight might be too hard, don’t cling to a fashion with empty words- god damn There is nothing wrong with supporting the students in Iran/

    Best to know the issues independent with a scope like a encyclopedia/ When it comes to life or death think for yourself b4 following the MASS MEDIA

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